Post by Onishiba on Feb 19, 2008 19:09:50 GMT -5
Although there already exists a thread for Brawl, I'm going to write my personal oppinions on several changes made to the game, mostly including or removing characters.
I also will include the "Forbidden 7", the 7 characters which were planned to be in the game but didn't make it actually.
Warning. This thread will contain SPOILERS. If you don't want to spoil your fun for unlocking things in Brawl, read not ahead.
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Super Smash Bros. Franchise
Return of: The SSB64 roster (Mario, Luigi, Donkey Kong, Yoshi, Kirby, Link, Captain Falcon, Ness, Fox, Samus, Pikachu, Jigglypuff)
Answer: Simple... Smash Bros. wouldn't be Smash Bros. without the original characters. Most of the strongest Nintendo franchises are covered by them (Mario, Donkey Kong, Kirby, Zelda, Metroid and Pokemon and F-Zero), as well as well-known, but not that good selling ones (namely Yoshi's games, Star Fox and Mother-series).
Nintendo would make itself look ridicolous if none of these characters was included.
Mario and Yoshi Franchises
Return of: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi
Of course the characters of the Mario franchise return. Simply put - there always have been only these five main characters. Mario, Luigi, Peach and Bowser and in several cases Yoshi.
Now, which character could you possibly add to them? The Baby Mario Bros.? Princess Daisy? All not really likely for Smash Bros. The only character I could think of would be Kamek. Maybe. But not really.
Removal of: Dr. Mario
Dr. Mario is one of the "Forbidden 7". Characters who were to be included but in the end didn't make it. For Dr. Mario the only thing I could imagine being possible for removing was the general removal of identical clones, Dr. Mario having the EXACT moveset of Mario, only with the pattern of his pill shot and the length of his coat changed. Besides he wasn't really famous in Melee.
Donkey Kong Franchise
Return of: Donkey Kong
Inclusion of: Diddy Kong
Of course the DK-franchise was one of the obvious underdogs in the Smash Bros.-series. In the first two games DK only was alone in there, and now he gets one fighter out of his series - Diddy. It was necessary, as the DK-franchise is one of the best selling ones, and having no other character besides the name giver is not really... well... proving for Nintendo's love. Besides Diddy has his own series (Diddy Kong Racing).
Removal of: Dixie Kong
I can't explain myself that one - but it's probably because Dixie isn't so famous among the Kong-family, having starred only in a couple of games. My second thought is that the creators weren't really sure about a moveset for her - she would've needed an original one including her hairspin and all. So not even a clone of Diddy would've been able.
The Legend of Zelda Franchise
Return of: Link, Zelda/Sheik, Ganondorf
Well... Link is obvious, Ganondorf too (although I don't see why they didn't give him an original moveset). Zelda/Sheik was very famous in Melee, so she probably returns because of that - besides she is only one of three and a half females (counting Jigglypuff as the half girl) in Smash Bros., so to keep at least a lil bit the female-quote, she was added, too. I think.
Inclusion of: Toon Link
Removal of: Young Link
Actually... Toon Link = Young Link, only that the Young Link-subseries (which started with Majora's Mask) turned slowly more and more cartoony - resulting in Wind Waker Link, in Brawl Toon Link. Young Link actually wasn't popular in Melee, but probably to turn a little the sells of the subseries, they included the new face of Young Link.
Removal of: Toon Zelda, Toon Sheik
These are another couple of the "Forbidden 7". I think the creators didn't want to overdo it with the Young Link-subseries - that's most likely what it has to be.
Metroid Franchise
Now Metroid, all in all, is one of the most tormented franchises when it comes to Smash Bros. If not the most tormented at all.
Return of: Samus
Inclusion of: Zero Suit Samus
Of course, one of the Top 5 selling franchises of Nintendo would not be likely to be not included. Lawl. It's obvious why Samus returns. Although ZSS is only a form of Samus, at least she got a half character added to her aid - still too little in my oppinion. The Metroid franchise has a lot of awesome characters which could've been used, not only Ridley, but also the Hunters. Meh.
Kirby Franchise
Return of: Kirby
Inclusion of: Meta Knight, King Dedede
Well, Sakurai's other loved child, the Kirby series... it has been pretty run over until Brawl, as well. Now that two characters are included, being Kirby's most important rivals, there is not much to say about that. It has been needed, anyway.
Star Fox Franchise
Return of: Fox, Falco
Inclusion of: Wolf
Well... Star Fox turned out to be a great disappointment. Star Fox and Star Fox 64 were extremely high selling games, but with Star Fox Adventures and the following games (Command, Assault) the sells got lower and lower... I think until now Star Fox turned into one of the worse selling franchises at the Nintendo All-Stars. Oh, and I think it has to do with Starfox Adventures, which actually wasn't even planned originally to turn into a Starfox game. It's very bleh-ish. The inclusion of Wolf and the return of Falco most likely is for advertising the series a little bit, following the Fire Emblem phenomenon, which I will illuminate later on.
Pokémon Franchise
Return of: Pikachu, Jigglypuff
Inclusion of: Trainer, Lucario
The Pokemon franchise, although being one of the youngest among the old caps in the Smash games, is one of the most sucessful ones. Of course, the Poke-phenomenon, and all of it. Pikachu is one of the most famous characters around the world, Jigglypuff a semi-main character in the anime - and one of the underdogs in Smash. The inclusion of the Trainer was kinda necessary, Lucario's in most likely to advert the current Pokemon-games.
Removal of: Mewtwo
Mewtwo is one of the "Forbidden 7". He was removed as last character, which can be seen by the fact that quite a lot of his data is still in the game - tho being empty. There's this rumor that he'll be in the US and PAL versions together with Roy, but as long as it's not proven, I won't say anything about his return. He probably got removed to not over-represent Pokemon.
Removal of: Pichu, Plusle & Minun
Pichu's removal is quite obvious. He was one of the most hated characters in Melee, never got the love Pikachu or even Jigglypuff earned and yeah... he still was a clone.
Plusle & Minun, one character of the "Forbidden 7", probably were to take his place, but seeing that the franchise would've consisted 6 characters (Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Trainer, Lucario, Mewtwo and P&M), the creators most likely removed it because of the same reason I think they removed Mewtwo - not to overrepresent this one series.
F-Zero Franchise
F-Zero has the same status as Metroid, only that it didn't get as much stages and not a half character update like Metroid did. It's also among the Top 5 selling franchises of Nintendo and is, in my oppinion, one of the best over all. Too bad it doesn't get the love it deserves.
Return of: Captain Falcon
Well, duh... <_<
Fire Emblem Franchise
Now this is actually QUITE interesting. Fire Emblem was nearly only Japan-released only, a few titles made it to US and PAL, but they didn't sell well, although FE is one of the best Strategy RPG-series ever made. With Marth's and Roy's inclusion in Melee the franchise got kind of a boom - people seeing both characters and searching for their roots found Fire Emblem. Roy's game was released nearly at the same time as Melee, so yeah. You know what happened then.
Return of: Marth
Marth was the first main character of the Fire Emblem series, and starred in more than one FE-game. Also, he was in Melee, of course, and actually Nintendo would make a big mistake to include Fire Emblem without its first protagonist. That's like including the Mario franchise without Mario.
Inclusion of: Ike
Well, Ike is the star of the newest two Fire Emblem games: Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn. He, as Roy was in Melee, is most likely in for advertisment.
Removal of: Roy
Another one of the "Forbidden 7". Roy is rumoured to return with Mewtwo as unlockables in US and PAL versions. His purpose in Melee was actually ONLY for advertising the new Fire Emblem game for the GBA which was released at that time. It's interesting that Roy was the second last character to be removed, as Sakurai clearly stated he wouldn't let Roy return. Yet he nearly did and is rumoured to do so later. Well - Roy is quite popular among the gamers, specially in US and PAL (as he was one of the first Fire Emblem lords they ever saw). So... yeah. *shrug*
Mother Franchise
Return of: Ness
Uhm, yeah... Ness was in the first game and actually Mother 2 was one of the game classics of interest back when it was released. Smash Bros. without Ness wouldn't be Smash Bros., though, so let's be happy he returned!
Inclusion of: Lucas
See Ike. <.<
Pikmin Franchise
Inclusion of: Captain Olimar & Pikmin
Hum. I can't explain this one myself, as I totally didn't expect Olimar to show up. Guess Miyamoto told Sakurai to put in Olimar. That's actually the only franchise and character I can't really explain.
WarioWare Franchise
Inclusion of: Wario
Wario was, actually, one of the mostly approved characters back then when Brawl was announced. He is quite old and had a lot of cameos in most of the Mario multiplayer games. Mario's fat and ugly... pardon, manly and sexy evil counterpart is finally joining the fight!
Wario, though, has two game series: Wario Land and WarioWare. Interestingly only WarioWare is mentioned in Brawl. The Wario Land-series aren't. At All. At least not when it comes to Stage, music, moveset or skills of Wario.
It's quite interesting to have him in this form, though, not as another Mario clone. Good.
One-Hits
Return of: Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch
Inclusion of: Pit, Robot/R.O.B.
One of the most interesting topics. Ice Climbers and G&W returning made me actually go "wha?". Especially as even after Melee the Ice Climbers didn't get a sequel at all. They were most likely added just because they were in Melee and had an unique moveset, as well. As for G&W... he actually was one I more likely expected. He became quite popular due to Melee and although Game & Watch-games aren't produced anymore, I think he was in for nostalgic reasons AND fun in the first place... I mean come on. A beeping black 2D-figure throwing sausages at the enemy?
Robot most likely was included kind for the same reason G&W was - it's kinda the Brawl-G&W. As for Pit... after the Ice Climbers were in Melee and even return in Brawl, our beloved angel deserved being mentioned as well. The creator of Kid Icarus already mentioned that he wants to create a new Kid Icarus-sequel for the Wii, using Brawl's model of Pit. We can stay tuned for more!
Third Party Franchises
Inclusion of: Sonic
Simply said? Pure fanservice. He was one of the most demanded characters, if not the most demanded. Including Sonic also shows the new era for Nintendo and other companies working together - we probably will see more than Mario & Sonic at the Olympic games and those two punching themselves in Brawl.
Inclusion of: Solid Snake
Well... for this one there are two factors. Factor one is that Snake's creator knows Sakurai and is friends with him. the second one is that he wanted Snake already in Melee (Sakurai is quoted with a "practically begged for Snake to be in"), but the game already was too far in development to squeeze Snake in. So he is now in the sequel.
Characters which should have been included:
- Ridley: Only for the reason of being awesome and the fact that Metroid needs more love from Nintendo. And for having more villains in Brawl.
- any F-Zero character (most likely Goroh or Black Shadow): See Ridley
- King K. Rool: For adding more villains in this game. It needs more evil characters to be playable. People love playing villains.
- Lip (main character of Panel de Pon): Yes, Lip needs to be in this game series. First of all, she provided one of the most dangerous items (Lip's stick, normally named "Lipstick" or "that flower stick"). Besides we need more girls. And who wouldn't love to say "lol, you got Panel de Pwned"?!
I also will include the "Forbidden 7", the 7 characters which were planned to be in the game but didn't make it actually.
Warning. This thread will contain SPOILERS. If you don't want to spoil your fun for unlocking things in Brawl, read not ahead.
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Super Smash Bros. Franchise
Return of: The SSB64 roster (Mario, Luigi, Donkey Kong, Yoshi, Kirby, Link, Captain Falcon, Ness, Fox, Samus, Pikachu, Jigglypuff)
Answer: Simple... Smash Bros. wouldn't be Smash Bros. without the original characters. Most of the strongest Nintendo franchises are covered by them (Mario, Donkey Kong, Kirby, Zelda, Metroid and Pokemon and F-Zero), as well as well-known, but not that good selling ones (namely Yoshi's games, Star Fox and Mother-series).
Nintendo would make itself look ridicolous if none of these characters was included.
Mario and Yoshi Franchises
Return of: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi
Of course the characters of the Mario franchise return. Simply put - there always have been only these five main characters. Mario, Luigi, Peach and Bowser and in several cases Yoshi.
Now, which character could you possibly add to them? The Baby Mario Bros.? Princess Daisy? All not really likely for Smash Bros. The only character I could think of would be Kamek. Maybe. But not really.
Removal of: Dr. Mario
Dr. Mario is one of the "Forbidden 7". Characters who were to be included but in the end didn't make it. For Dr. Mario the only thing I could imagine being possible for removing was the general removal of identical clones, Dr. Mario having the EXACT moveset of Mario, only with the pattern of his pill shot and the length of his coat changed. Besides he wasn't really famous in Melee.
Donkey Kong Franchise
Return of: Donkey Kong
Inclusion of: Diddy Kong
Of course the DK-franchise was one of the obvious underdogs in the Smash Bros.-series. In the first two games DK only was alone in there, and now he gets one fighter out of his series - Diddy. It was necessary, as the DK-franchise is one of the best selling ones, and having no other character besides the name giver is not really... well... proving for Nintendo's love. Besides Diddy has his own series (Diddy Kong Racing).
Removal of: Dixie Kong
I can't explain myself that one - but it's probably because Dixie isn't so famous among the Kong-family, having starred only in a couple of games. My second thought is that the creators weren't really sure about a moveset for her - she would've needed an original one including her hairspin and all. So not even a clone of Diddy would've been able.
The Legend of Zelda Franchise
Return of: Link, Zelda/Sheik, Ganondorf
Well... Link is obvious, Ganondorf too (although I don't see why they didn't give him an original moveset). Zelda/Sheik was very famous in Melee, so she probably returns because of that - besides she is only one of three and a half females (counting Jigglypuff as the half girl) in Smash Bros., so to keep at least a lil bit the female-quote, she was added, too. I think.
Inclusion of: Toon Link
Removal of: Young Link
Actually... Toon Link = Young Link, only that the Young Link-subseries (which started with Majora's Mask) turned slowly more and more cartoony - resulting in Wind Waker Link, in Brawl Toon Link. Young Link actually wasn't popular in Melee, but probably to turn a little the sells of the subseries, they included the new face of Young Link.
Removal of: Toon Zelda, Toon Sheik
These are another couple of the "Forbidden 7". I think the creators didn't want to overdo it with the Young Link-subseries - that's most likely what it has to be.
Metroid Franchise
Now Metroid, all in all, is one of the most tormented franchises when it comes to Smash Bros. If not the most tormented at all.
Return of: Samus
Inclusion of: Zero Suit Samus
Of course, one of the Top 5 selling franchises of Nintendo would not be likely to be not included. Lawl. It's obvious why Samus returns. Although ZSS is only a form of Samus, at least she got a half character added to her aid - still too little in my oppinion. The Metroid franchise has a lot of awesome characters which could've been used, not only Ridley, but also the Hunters. Meh.
Kirby Franchise
Return of: Kirby
Inclusion of: Meta Knight, King Dedede
Well, Sakurai's other loved child, the Kirby series... it has been pretty run over until Brawl, as well. Now that two characters are included, being Kirby's most important rivals, there is not much to say about that. It has been needed, anyway.
Star Fox Franchise
Return of: Fox, Falco
Inclusion of: Wolf
Well... Star Fox turned out to be a great disappointment. Star Fox and Star Fox 64 were extremely high selling games, but with Star Fox Adventures and the following games (Command, Assault) the sells got lower and lower... I think until now Star Fox turned into one of the worse selling franchises at the Nintendo All-Stars. Oh, and I think it has to do with Starfox Adventures, which actually wasn't even planned originally to turn into a Starfox game. It's very bleh-ish. The inclusion of Wolf and the return of Falco most likely is for advertising the series a little bit, following the Fire Emblem phenomenon, which I will illuminate later on.
Pokémon Franchise
Return of: Pikachu, Jigglypuff
Inclusion of: Trainer, Lucario
The Pokemon franchise, although being one of the youngest among the old caps in the Smash games, is one of the most sucessful ones. Of course, the Poke-phenomenon, and all of it. Pikachu is one of the most famous characters around the world, Jigglypuff a semi-main character in the anime - and one of the underdogs in Smash. The inclusion of the Trainer was kinda necessary, Lucario's in most likely to advert the current Pokemon-games.
Removal of: Mewtwo
Mewtwo is one of the "Forbidden 7". He was removed as last character, which can be seen by the fact that quite a lot of his data is still in the game - tho being empty. There's this rumor that he'll be in the US and PAL versions together with Roy, but as long as it's not proven, I won't say anything about his return. He probably got removed to not over-represent Pokemon.
Removal of: Pichu, Plusle & Minun
Pichu's removal is quite obvious. He was one of the most hated characters in Melee, never got the love Pikachu or even Jigglypuff earned and yeah... he still was a clone.
Plusle & Minun, one character of the "Forbidden 7", probably were to take his place, but seeing that the franchise would've consisted 6 characters (Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Trainer, Lucario, Mewtwo and P&M), the creators most likely removed it because of the same reason I think they removed Mewtwo - not to overrepresent this one series.
F-Zero Franchise
F-Zero has the same status as Metroid, only that it didn't get as much stages and not a half character update like Metroid did. It's also among the Top 5 selling franchises of Nintendo and is, in my oppinion, one of the best over all. Too bad it doesn't get the love it deserves.
Return of: Captain Falcon
Well, duh... <_<
Fire Emblem Franchise
Now this is actually QUITE interesting. Fire Emblem was nearly only Japan-released only, a few titles made it to US and PAL, but they didn't sell well, although FE is one of the best Strategy RPG-series ever made. With Marth's and Roy's inclusion in Melee the franchise got kind of a boom - people seeing both characters and searching for their roots found Fire Emblem. Roy's game was released nearly at the same time as Melee, so yeah. You know what happened then.
Return of: Marth
Marth was the first main character of the Fire Emblem series, and starred in more than one FE-game. Also, he was in Melee, of course, and actually Nintendo would make a big mistake to include Fire Emblem without its first protagonist. That's like including the Mario franchise without Mario.
Inclusion of: Ike
Well, Ike is the star of the newest two Fire Emblem games: Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn. He, as Roy was in Melee, is most likely in for advertisment.
Removal of: Roy
Another one of the "Forbidden 7". Roy is rumoured to return with Mewtwo as unlockables in US and PAL versions. His purpose in Melee was actually ONLY for advertising the new Fire Emblem game for the GBA which was released at that time. It's interesting that Roy was the second last character to be removed, as Sakurai clearly stated he wouldn't let Roy return. Yet he nearly did and is rumoured to do so later. Well - Roy is quite popular among the gamers, specially in US and PAL (as he was one of the first Fire Emblem lords they ever saw). So... yeah. *shrug*
Mother Franchise
Return of: Ness
Uhm, yeah... Ness was in the first game and actually Mother 2 was one of the game classics of interest back when it was released. Smash Bros. without Ness wouldn't be Smash Bros., though, so let's be happy he returned!
Inclusion of: Lucas
See Ike. <.<
Pikmin Franchise
Inclusion of: Captain Olimar & Pikmin
Hum. I can't explain this one myself, as I totally didn't expect Olimar to show up. Guess Miyamoto told Sakurai to put in Olimar. That's actually the only franchise and character I can't really explain.
WarioWare Franchise
Inclusion of: Wario
Wario was, actually, one of the mostly approved characters back then when Brawl was announced. He is quite old and had a lot of cameos in most of the Mario multiplayer games. Mario's fat and ugly... pardon, manly and sexy evil counterpart is finally joining the fight!
Wario, though, has two game series: Wario Land and WarioWare. Interestingly only WarioWare is mentioned in Brawl. The Wario Land-series aren't. At All. At least not when it comes to Stage, music, moveset or skills of Wario.
It's quite interesting to have him in this form, though, not as another Mario clone. Good.
One-Hits
Return of: Ice Climbers, Mr. Game & Watch
Inclusion of: Pit, Robot/R.O.B.
One of the most interesting topics. Ice Climbers and G&W returning made me actually go "wha?". Especially as even after Melee the Ice Climbers didn't get a sequel at all. They were most likely added just because they were in Melee and had an unique moveset, as well. As for G&W... he actually was one I more likely expected. He became quite popular due to Melee and although Game & Watch-games aren't produced anymore, I think he was in for nostalgic reasons AND fun in the first place... I mean come on. A beeping black 2D-figure throwing sausages at the enemy?
Robot most likely was included kind for the same reason G&W was - it's kinda the Brawl-G&W. As for Pit... after the Ice Climbers were in Melee and even return in Brawl, our beloved angel deserved being mentioned as well. The creator of Kid Icarus already mentioned that he wants to create a new Kid Icarus-sequel for the Wii, using Brawl's model of Pit. We can stay tuned for more!
Third Party Franchises
Inclusion of: Sonic
Simply said? Pure fanservice. He was one of the most demanded characters, if not the most demanded. Including Sonic also shows the new era for Nintendo and other companies working together - we probably will see more than Mario & Sonic at the Olympic games and those two punching themselves in Brawl.
Inclusion of: Solid Snake
Well... for this one there are two factors. Factor one is that Snake's creator knows Sakurai and is friends with him. the second one is that he wanted Snake already in Melee (Sakurai is quoted with a "practically begged for Snake to be in"), but the game already was too far in development to squeeze Snake in. So he is now in the sequel.
Characters which should have been included:
- Ridley: Only for the reason of being awesome and the fact that Metroid needs more love from Nintendo. And for having more villains in Brawl.
- any F-Zero character (most likely Goroh or Black Shadow): See Ridley
- King K. Rool: For adding more villains in this game. It needs more evil characters to be playable. People love playing villains.
- Lip (main character of Panel de Pon): Yes, Lip needs to be in this game series. First of all, she provided one of the most dangerous items (Lip's stick, normally named "Lipstick" or "that flower stick"). Besides we need more girls. And who wouldn't love to say "lol, you got Panel de Pwned"?!